Blog#ThisIsOurLane – Physicians and Gun Violence

#ThisIsOurLane – Physicians and Gun Violence

10 Comments

  1. I am very disappointed with this article. This emotion based argument is clearly unsupported by the available evidence.

    I used to believe this until I started looking at the sources of the gun control lobby’s "evidence". Even the correlation between gun ownership and violence falls apart unless you cherry pick the data. Ask yourself why these studies never include countries such as Russia and Yemen.

    Even the "fact" about the CDC not being able to study gun control, while having some truth to it, is not telling the whole story. Under Obama, the CDC did study gun control, and found that defensive gun uses far outweigh criminal uses. This data was never publicized and the media pretends it never happened.

    It’s OK to support gun band and gun control, but do not pretend that it is a neutral, bias-free, data driven argument, when it is clearly the opposite of that.

    1. Dr. N, gun violence is certainly an emotional issue. It is right to feel sadness, even anger about this. But the ideas in the position statement are not based on emotion. It seems we share the same goal – to save the lives of people. It seems we both agree that people are valuable and deserve the chance to live. Maybe more lives would be saved by defensive gun use, as you mentioned. There is some evidence that may be the case, though it is survey-based and objectively low-quality. https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/ But can we not agree that there are also some solutions with face validity and some evidence, albeit weak, advocated by the ACP that could reduce mortality? None of the ideas in the ACP statement would threaten defensive gun use by legal gun owners. What do you think about the ideas in the paper – bringing diverse groups together, freeing doctors to ask patients about guns, universal background checks, closing loopholes, better reporting, and funding for high quality research? These are rational, evidence-based solutions that both respect the Second Amendment and save lives. Are you not for that?

  2. I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts on the matter. I think the NRA’s comment is unnecessarily divisive, but I think there are interesting points to consider.

    I noticed many people in the comments mentioning GSWs as terrible experiences while on trauma rotations (which I too have experienced), and this being an impetus for their demanding change. Seeing the suffering of others often times compels us to passionate action, and it should, but we must bear in mind that our passion about a particular problem we see in society does not give us a free pass to conclude that the people that disagree with our method of addressing the issue do not care just as much. Fundamentally, nobody wants to see gun violence. Assuming otherwise is going result in unproductive conversations all around.

    As far as Australia and their forced gun confiscation… if you look at their violent crime statistics, the trend was falling pre-ban and continued on the same downward trend post-ban. It is probably not justifiable to draw strong conclusions from this single experiment.

    The article seems to paint a sort of dichotomy that you are either pro gun control or pro gun violence, which I hope you do not believe to be true. I think we could all benefit to assume positive intention from both sides. The NRA should understand that docs just want to quell violence and that gun control seems reasonable, but the NRA should also be given the benefit of the doubt. I think they likely want violence in general to decrease, but disagree with your suggested methods given the failure of gun control laws in Chicago, for example, (a city with the strictest of gun laws) fail to quell violent crimes. I think the NRA has seen some of the CDC data that Dr. N mentioned that conservatively estimates that guns prevent 450k crimes per year.

    On the whole I think it would benefit both sides of this issue to proceed with a healthy amount of respect and show a good bit of grace in believing that both sides want less violence and want to solve this problem.

  3. Completely agree with Dr. N. This is the old, tired game — use words like "I support the 2nd BUTT BUT…." or "Hey, I own guns bla bla but" and then parrot all the same non-sensical and grossly manipulated faux "associations" and anecdotal information. Tell me Clay, where is your outrage about the number of children that drown in swimming pools? What have you done to increase "common sense" regulations about pool, or limiting who can own them, and how deep we should allow them to be? Oh, wait, I know — Swimming Pools and Cars were not "Made for killing" so, that a moot point right? I think the point the NRA was making (even though I’m not a fan of them) was, being a doctor and seeing the results of Gun Violence doesn’t make you a Gun or 2nd amendment expert. What’s more, this is not even a "gun issue", this is violence/criminal justice issue. Does you PHD give you an expert tag in that too?

  4. My constitutional rights are NOT up for your emotional ideas. Life is hard and people die everyday. Some by doctors malpractice. The politicians of both parties don’t care about violence they want votes and control i.e. power over others. That is why the criminals are let back in to society.

  5. Also the second amendment is not a granted right, but one which recognizes the natural right of self defense,or god given if you prefer. So get rid of it 2/3 of the congress and 2/3 of the states,and I still prevail. Spend more time being a doctor and less telling others how to live

  6. Regarding “common sense” gun control laws: My dictionary defines “common sense” as “sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge.”

    For any law to be “common sense” oriented, there must be a clear and well-defined end result, an expectation that it will/can be enforced, and some validation that the scheme has the desired effect. No proposal from the Brady Campaign, Violence Policy Center, or Criminals for Societal Manipulation (a.k.a. Michael Bloomberg’s Mayors Against Illegal Guns) meets the definition of “common sense.”

    The expressed expectations and desired results all depend on the assumptions that criminals will obey the new laws even though they are criminals who freely disobey other inconvenient laws.

    One may judge the honesty of an approach to solving the problem of gun violence by the degree to which the fact of human volition is ignored or evaded. In the case of the Democrats, the evasion is obvious. They do not consider evil or negligence to be the problem, but instead concentrate on inessential and irrelevant attributes of the weapons themselves, such as their appearance or the fact that they are considered "assault rifles." Human volition, which means the responsibility of an individual for his own actions, is the one issue that they dare not discuss.

    This is because the corollary of individual responsibility is individual rights, the very concept that they have set out to deny.

    Common sense requires incarcerating miscreants, thugs, and social deviants, not unviable and unprovable wishes expressed as laws.

    1. I could not agree more that there is real evil in the world and people are absolutely responsible for their actions. And I agree that gun violence is due to people choosing to do wrong. It is a complex problem – with aspects that are moral, spiritual, mental health, etc. But on the theme of common sense, let’s consider some of the ACP ideas, since that is the topic at hand. It seems to show sound practical judgment independent of specialized knowledge that if this evil guy has to do a background check to buy a gun at the local big box store, and knows he won’t pass a background check that he will buy his gun at a gun show. How is it common sense to keep horses in a pasture with the main gate closed and side gate open?

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